Rules for extension of LM rewards + LINK, WBTC, ETH, Ocean, renBTC extension

@atosm @bavi @AnimaDunk

The reason behind pushing towards extension of this pools is the maintain the TVL growing.

Which also means, prevent from decreasing, we are afraid that when the rewards stop, people gonna pull the money.

I understand your concerns and it makes sense from the performance and community engagement perspective.

I think @mbr can reach out to Ocean community and motivate them to participate more.

@nhindman can you please also stipulate how important constant TVL growth is important from the marketing perspective?

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I agree with you, it is better to launch when everything is ready, tested and audited.

Just wanted to make sure that this is still in the works, and I fully understand and appreciate your answer. Don’t worry about an ETA @mbr it is ready when is ready.

Maintaining TVL is good.

  1. I 100% support eth/wbtc/link (I actually think these should be “permanent” somehow in the long run).
  2. Ocean/renBTC on the other hand … unless there is some “special” cooporation that benefit Bancor in the work. I do not see enough justification to keep incentivizing 2 pools for 16weeks that barely pull in any trade volume at all. Since the volume in the Ocean/renBTC pools are so low, even if TVL drop to 0 for these 2 pools, we lost a total of 1m daily volume. not a big deal.
  3. Use the LM that was in OCEAN/renBTC to incetivize other pools that give better rate of return. I know OCEAN has been with us from the start and they should get a little special treatment… but they already got 16 weeks of reward while not deliveling the trade volume. Ocean/renBTC should be voted separately from the LINK/WBTC/ETH proposal … seriously… don’t do a 5500 page stimulus deal that add excess fat to the package.

Remove/Reduce the Ocean and renBTC LM rewards.

Rewards for Ocean and renBTC could use further discussion and perhaps should be left out of this proposal (open another one just for them).

I agree TVL is an important metric, but also is volume and we need to have much more of it. How will we increase volume? APY needs to be more organic and not just based on emissions / LM rewards.

What about stablecoins? I guess LM rewards for USDC/USDT/DAI pairs will end in 10 days and will not be extended right? Any strategy for them, which produce decent liquidity and volume?

Part of the problem I suspect is that the Ocean pool has been full for so long that it is difficult to promote Bancor withing the Ocean community-I have tried and tried! Naturally I would be upset if it was not renewed - as it was what got me into Bancor to start with - and now have added liquidity in BNT to WNXM, and LINK pools as well as OCEAN - and WNXM itself- so please don’t just look at the Ocean pool in isolation.

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FYI there is a separate going on for stablecoin pools: Stablepools LM rewards halving and extension: - #14 by mbr

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Hey @MichalHerzyk ,

I can understand your worries about the TVL having some sort of bank run on these pools. Can I understand correctly that them being drained would cause IL to skyrocket, thus costing us more than extending LM?

If that is the case, we should be really looking at the core system, as this would essentially mean having low volume pools with IL protection / LM Rewards holding us hostage.

Why I’m really against extending these pools in this vote, is that it wouldn’t improve them.
It will just be a cycle of them lifting on the high volume pools’ success. We have currently 4 pools waiting for LM rewards that are being voted on, with many more to come probably.

That’s why I say, have the community of both coins proposing a vote.
It will be a sign of good faith towards the rest of the Bancor Community that they’re are working their very best to improve the future of the pool!

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Remove Ocean and renBTC and this will have my support.

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Thanks for the feedback guys UPDATED PROPOSAL BELOWE

Lets move our conversation there.

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Thanks, I missed that one but looking at it now.

Would be very sad if you cut the LM rewards for Ocean and renBTC. I am not in the Ocean pool, but I am in the renBTC pool with half my btc. And still waiting for IL protection to kick in. So please let those pools tag along in the LM rewards program.

Are there any efforts we can make to drive more volume towards these pools? There is a decent amount of uniswap volume we should be able to hijack. Like we’ve seen with the Link pool. How has the Link pool managed to steal all the volume it has? Can we do the same for renBTC and Ocean?

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I do have multiple of Ocean and BNT in the OCEAN / BNT pools.
Withdrawing them will cost me more $ETH fees then OCEANS protected.
I would like te see them rewarded with small cap, so that i wont make a loss with withdrawing them.
Or L2 should be implemented hopefully soon, or multiple withdrawing.

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We are working on a proposal with the OCEAN community now to re-instate liquidity mining rewards. I think everyone will be happy with it - it will be the first of its kind.

Be reminded that the LM scheme is more like a bonus yield. The long-term plan is for the trade revenue to take over. The new LM plan with the OCEAN community will capture this goal in an explicit way.

I fully agree with martinwj. The Ocean community is eager to add more Ocean in the pool, but it’s not possible for quite some time now as it’s full. Maybe it’s an idea to open the pool for more Ocean holders to join and first see how that goes, before removing them from LM rewards. Their community is pretty big and growing

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Thanks for the efforts put into the proposal. I just want to draw the attention of the community members opposing the renewal of medium/low cap pools even the ones yet to end and not listed here, to a number of few points to consider:

1- The medium/low cap pools have two sides in which one of them is always BNT and the non-renewal would affect BNT holders too.
2- The protocol v2 is somehow new and lots of new stakers made the investment while focusing initially on the highest reward and it being renewed for number of times before ending.
3- Bancor team and community need to maintain a broader view of the overall protocol economic health that would only come from considering different angles of all investors and backers of the protocol. Part of this is the high fees of staking and unstaking, the non-existence yet of a stake transfer at least to the BNT side of pools to other pools (if it will be considered), some stakers adding multiple stakes that will even be more expensive to unstake then restake.
4- This way of thinking might end up with a handful of pools only volume focused

Those were my two cents and wish all community or most of it at least agrees to the best.

Thanks.

Additional points here:
5- Some might not have completed full protection. Hence might feel somehow tricked. Of course they should understand that the renewals were not guaranteed.
6- They would lose their 2x LM rewards by all means if it happens they reached it. whether losing the rewards itself when it ends or they have to restake some other pool to restart.

im not sure if ur reffering to renBTC. if so shadow token pools are coming soon which should serve to give a proactive option to renBTC LPs. if we’re refferring to ocean the reason rewards ended was because of the contingency built into the rewards, which was put forth by the Ocean community.