Bancor should strive to become a platform for regular users + aggregates + arbitrage.
Other platforms like sushiswap & others have implemented things like https://www.manifoldfinance.com/ ( i dont know anything about ← project ) & other solutions to protect their users from being frontrun .
if the swap rates were comparable to other / AMM’s, then perhaps Bancor would aquire more users / more volume etc.
I dont see why the original AMM having poor swap rates is acceptable // will be acceptable in the future.
Are you serious? Less than two years have passed, and you are already giving up. Why don’t you see the effect of burning vBNT, because this is a long-term strategy, not a five-minute one, and we are just getting close to seeing this effect, and you want to ruin it all. The price of a BNT = 1.12 vBNT if we use all BNT to buy out vBNT, then for the first time we will cross the 1:1 (will BNT = 0.72 vBNT) border, and this will be an impulse for the market.
And what will be the reaction of the market to the burning of BNT? Nothing! Because they have already been withdrawn from circulation, and users could react to such “super idea” only in 2017.
I am a BNT staker and I sold vBNT at around 0.8 for more BNT. Burning vBNT may have an effect on me, but it’s mostly hurting people who like BNT. Because you can only get vBNT if you stake BNT. I like BNT and I am optimistic about BNT and the future of bancor, so I bought BNT and stake it. Burning vBNT can’t really raise the price of BNT, it will only make more people who like BNT disappointed and leave. It can be seen that the total stake rate of BNT has dropped to 48%. We can learn that Binance regularly buys BNB and burns it as a marketing tool to attract more people to buy BNT. Sometimes simple strategies are the most effective.
What does an impulse for the market mean? Literally no one cares about the price of vbnt or bnt outside our circles.
The market reaction of burning vBNT has already shown to be … NOTHING ! 2 years of burning vBNT and youre still drinking the coolaide. Yes, theres been no BNT inflation for the past 3 months or so, but during the past 3 months, burning vBNT has had no visible effect on supporting todays BNT. It will lock away the vBNT LP’s and those that sold off their vBNT. But both these groups of users I can easily argue are not going to add sell pressure to BNT.
Now I am fine long term wit the current status quo, however, the fact that we have NEVER seen bancor directly burn and remove BNT circulating supply makes me want to at minimum explore this option and see it for a trial period. Not doing so is negligence. stupidity. ignorance… not having an open mind.
Incorrect. What BNT has been withdrawn from circulation at this point? the vortex sells bnt for vBNT . so the vortex receives bnt, then sells the bnt, therefor releasing that bnt into the market.
Future BNT is locked away, so burning vBNT does have merit. But bancor is going through this situation now and needs to focus on now not later.
heres a simple example for you
new york has a problem with stray cats, # are increasing rapidly and the cats are spreading diseases to humans and humans are now dying from these diseases.
a) should the city neuter the cats so they cant reproduce? ( future population will shrink ) vBNT
b) should the city kill the stray cats ( shrink the population now ) BNT
since vbnt is at a discount , lets assume for this example that cats mate for life. so greater bang for your buck long term to neuter the cats.
I agree with this about 99%. I just want to give the slightest caviat: while LM rewards were active the effect of the vortex was essentially nullified. For as long as there was active LM rewards I would argue the vortex, in essence, wasn’t active.
The terms “stupidity” and “ignorance” is a pretty harsh here, but I think negligence is actually pretty accurate. Again: 100% agree that burning BNT here is a great experiment we should run. I am still an advocate of creating a “1 million BNT burn” kind of countdown. The current amount of BNT we have waiting is 770k and it seems to go up by about 10k BNT a day. We should absolutely be doing marketing around this.
This conversation between BNT and vBNT has been going on for far too long now and I believe that both sides have given sufficient talking points to illustrate the pros and cons. I would like to hear from @mbr if he has any thoughts on whether or not burning BNT has any validity, given the reasons for raised.
After this, rather than endlessly discussing this, I would like to draft the proposal ( after we nail down all the details )
I hope you, and everyone else in this thread, will participate in the DAO Discussion call tomorrow on Discord based around this topic.
The first Live DAO Discussions call will be taking place tomorrow on the Bancor Discord Stage 1 PM EST / 10 AM PST Continue burning $vBNT, switch to $BNT burning or both? Join the stage and have your opinions be heard. #BancorDAO Set Your Reminder: Discord Discord Discord - A New Way to Chat with Friends & Communities Discord is the easiest way to communicate over voice, video, and text. Chat, hang out, and stay close with your friends and communities. Discord Discord - A New Way to Chat with Friends & Communities Discord is the easiest way to communicate over voice, video, and text. Chat, hang out, and stay close with your friends and communities.
The community call last night was extremely helpful. It really allowed everyone to gather together in one space and really hammer down ideas on a specific topic. If other future meaningful proposals come up, then I think it would be good practice for the DAO to have future conversations like last night.
To sum things up, it seemed as if a majority was in favor of burning BNT, simply as a trial experiment to test the waters and gauge market reaction / sentiment. With appropriate marketing, we’ll be able to see if this idea is capable of increasing interest. I’m curious to see how this will pan out, while keeping expectations low.
One thing I think we can all easily agree on, is that in order to revitalize Bancor, or specifically the BNT token, the DAO must come up with a strategy to encourage organic buy pressure on the BNT token. The token burn can contribute to this, however this idea surely isn’t the end all be all & it needs to be showcased and visible to a wide audience.
The token burn will draw attention to bancor. Medium articles, tweets, youtube videos etc. may bring this up as a topic of discussion. This is where the momentum will shift in our favor. However, while we have the momentum behind us, I strongly suggest that it is important to keep the momentum going. The work being done by the contributors ( auto-compounding, bancor v4 ( or the new implementations after the patents)) will be additional topics that will keep the momentum going. But if possible, if we can hit the audience with something so captivating about the BNT token that will encourage them to hit the green button…then the wind will be at Bancors back.
A thorough marketing strategy should be planned beforehand… because if a wide audience isn’t aware of bancors revitalization, then the fruits of labor wont taste as sweet.
Thanks so much Jindo! I’m really glad you found the DAO Discussions call helpful, and I definitely plan to continue having them in that same format moving forward. Just a quick follow up to the call, I confirmed with @yudi that if the DAO votes to burn BNT once 1M is accumulated, it is achievable when considering the dev work involved and time remaining.
Hello everyone, I’ve been listening to the recording of the Discord discussion from yesterday and I TOTALLY DISAGREE with the idea of burning BNT instead of vBNT.
As far as solving the potential limitations of burning the large amount of BNT we’ve collected…
We should swap as much BNT as possible to achieve maximum profitability.
So only pushing the ratio up to 1:1 and also taking into account the loss due to slippage. We can use the collected BNT to increase the liquidity in the vortex pool if needed to decrease slippage.
We need to capture the trading fees from the volume that will be created from the arbitrage opportunity that the vBNT burn will create
There are likely vBNT holders that have been holding since the ratio has been much lower, they would want to take profits when the ratio gets pushed up. That creates fees for the protocol
when they swap that vBNT for BNT, ETH, DAI etc… (and those fees are collected in BNT )
I know this would take some computation but we have the Bancor Simulator now and we have the giga brains on the team to do it.
It doesn’t have to be an all at once burn it can be incremental.
I strongly feel that we need to drive market movement from these market effects, I mean we are a DEFI exchange for God sakes we don’t need to rely on marketing to push price up when we have a huge reserve of value ready to inject into the market
I’m not against the marketing either, but only in combination with direct market effects/strategy
I have some questions on supply,
like how much vBNT has been bought from the open market rather than received from staking BNT. That would be good context to evaluate the expect response of burning vBNT.
Also, with BNT being an elastic supply token I wonder if coin gecko and coin market cap are still including the protocol owned BNT in the total supply, if so that needs to be fixed, and any BNT that gets locked in the protocol essentially forever by burning vBNT, that corresponding BNT should be removed from reported circulating supply. SIMPLE. So if burning 1 vBNT locks 1.12 BNT (just an example) then 1.12 BNT should be removed from circulating supply. So burning vBNT could cause a a huge reduction in BNT circulating supply if we’re talking about burning over 1 Million vBNT for example.
Ultimately, I really think the simulator should run a bunch of experiments with this to find out the best outcome, we don’t need to hope an pray for the market to react positively to burning BNT. We should experiment with the outcomes of logical market reactions to the burning of vBNT by using the Simulator then we’ll have an idea of how to move forward.
Yea I’m talking about the BNT collected ready to be swapped for vBNT and burned. We should run the simulator and determine the most likely profitable outcome on how to use. Such using as much as possible without causing excessive slippage and seeding the vBNT/BNT pool with more liquidity for the collected BNT to reduce slippage etc…
We may also want to get an understanding of who are the biggest vBNT holders who market bought rather than getting it from staking and running some simulations of their likely behaviors once vBNT price goes up and seeing the market effects etc…
It really depends what you are trying to achieve and in most cases you don’t need the simulator.
If you want to reduce the BNT supply in the short term - burning is the best method.
If you want to prevent future minting of BNT by BNT unstaking - use it to buy vBNT
Congratz. you’ve essentially burned 0.4% of your liquidity (There is currently $115M liquidity). Normally these fees would end up in the protocol. Caviat: 27th July total BNT in circulation 229M, prior burn 193.3M → 11.9M/month decrease.
Capital allocation level Blizzard. We have 6.4B cash on hand what do we do? Pay more the developers that can provably make original, mature games and create a great culture that they can thrive in? Let me think. Let’s buy Candy Crush at it’s peak.
The BNT collected was already purchased, so of course there would not be any price effect ( similar to that of burning vBNT … which also has no effect ).
Am I happy? No, but I am disappointed that there was literally 0 efforts in terms of marketing this event. No marketing push to create some sort of hype around the burn, no build up to the event, not even a medium article. The event came and went with literally no outside knowledge. So the event itself was a waste.
Removing the BNT permanently from circulation though is a good thing, and I hope this continues to happen.
Bancor has a good team of development contributors, but its now apparent that the foundation must pay for someone to advance / improve the image of bancor. Let coders code, and let a marketing expert revamp the Bancors image.
I earlier made a post urging the team to use this burn event, and all the upcoming updates to bancor to create some hype and awareness of the project and its re-vamp … clearly this was ignored… disappointed that those that can pull the strings here don’t see the benefits in marketing and hype .
my opinion on vBNT remains the same, vBNT lps are trapped already, they wont remove their lp position and take the IL, therefor their BNT is already essentially locked up. Actions need to be done today to prop up the price of bnt… rather than actions that will help to keep the prices propped up later.
The first Live DAO Discussions call will be taking place tomorrow on the Bancor Discord Stage 
1 PM EST / 10 AM PST 
Continue burning $vBNT, switch to $BNT burning or both? Join the stage and have your opinions be heard. 
Set Your Reminder: 
We can use the collected BNT to increase the liquidity in the vortex pool if needed to decrease slippage.
now and we have the giga brains 
on the team to do it.