Feedback Request: V3 Vortex - Burn The Collected BNT or Wait

TL;DR

Options

  1. Wait for the DAO to decide on the updated model for the protocol, than build the V3 vortex and only then convert to vBNT and burn
  2. Burn the BNT directly now

While there are other things that can be done, at this stage, in my personal opinion, we should do nothing that would potentially result in these being sold. This would undermine the the recovery plan and the original reason these BNT were collected.

Thoughts?

burn them BNTs.

lets use this to evaluate the impact of BNT burning.

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I think we should sit on them until the V3 vortex is live and then use them in the vortex (whether that vortex will burn them or swap and burn vBNT is fine).

The protocol should be making full use of its most robust features and we should be waiting to use resources until those features are fully implemented.

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To add here, these BNT tokens that are sitting have already being bought from the market. This means that TKNs have already been swapped for this BNT and the last leg of swapping for vBNT to burn has not happened yet due to the vortex not being implemented in Bancor 3 yet.

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Since many things are being changed right now, to reduce risk from frequent code changes, I would suggest to not make any changes until the DAO decided on the best path forward.

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Strong agree.

Someone will, in the coming weeks, make a proposal for the DAO to vote on. It would be a massive misuse of dev time to start trying to work on a series of these in a piece-meal fashion.

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There is now well over 200K BNT sitting there.

Do you guys really think market dumping them for vBNT is a good idea???

Not talking about the vortex in general, just this case of collected BNT in the V3 wallet.

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Vbnt buys and burns are good for BNT price by arb pressure of bnt buys and locking vbnt in the pool. 200k should be done in phases but it should be done as the Vortex is designed

The protocol should not be market selling 200k BNT right now. The future of the vortex should, almost certainly, be used to lock up vBNT until it is no longer ‘efficient’ to do so.

As for the BNT the protocol already has: it would be unwise to market dump this.

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So I have definitely changed my position on the issue of “what do we do with the approx 200k BNT the protocol has?”

A market dump of this BNT would be a mistake, but using the B3 vortex to make swaps with BNT after the B3 vortex is made is still the right choice.

We should use the BNT burn as a tool for marketing as suggested @ashachaf

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not sure marketing alone is a strong financial model.
but i do support testing with v3 vortex and burn bnt instead of vbnt.

@thedavidmeister @ZenoBNT

how would you feel to test with setting v3 vortex to burn BNT instead of vBNT once with all existing BNT it holds.
get data on the effect of this.

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while we sit idle here, the v3 vortex is accumulating more and more BNT.
utilizing them and activating the burn should be an item on the agenda.

we should consider BNT burning as a data collection exercise and allow a one time burn of all V3 BNTs.

what might be the evaluation tools?
how can we define success/failure of this test?

Agree that a burn needs to be scheduled. Good question on what should be evaluated. Hard to differentiate the net effect of this burn since the supply recapture has already had a market effect (in theory). Potentially the effect of advertising a large burn as @ZenoBNT suggested? Could achieve some degree of additional benefit from trading bots programmed to seek “burn” or some derivation, but to be honest not in my wheelhouse, just throwing the idea out there. But to take a stab at your last question, a success in this regard could be increased market attention on the Vortex mechanism on the supply and advertising more clearly how its at 90% right now.

@ashachaf @PaperStreetCapital

It is my belief - in life generally - that a bad plan which is fully supported by the whole group will have a better effect than a good plan which is not fully supported by the whole group, but no one can ever truly know what is or isn’t a good plan - so the key factor is community consensus and support.

At this point, I am quite comfortable with just about any strategy that involves some form of experimentation with regards to the burner. Right now I think that we should start promoting a massive 200k BNT burn (current B3 reserves) and set a date for the day of the burn (I don’t know the timeframe, but 6 to 8 weeks to get the word out about the burn date seems reasonable to me). After that we can see how the market reacts.

As for the vortex: in principal the vortex should be burning vBNT. We should be leveraging the burner to maximize the efficiency of the capital we have. This all being said: it seems as though the burner, operating currently at 90%, is already making strong gains.

Lastly, I don’t what the best path forward is: I personally think that the vortex (once built) should burn vBNT (with leverage) and the BNT reserves we have should be burned after advertising the burn, but more importantly I think whatever we do must have the support of the community.

The Bancor Twitter should talk about it, the telegram should have a message pinned about, twitter spaces should be held, a hashtag, a promotion: all of it.

Bancor has consistently blundered on messaging and no matter how good the plan; it needs to be signaled to the Bancor community and the greater crypto community.

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What do you hypothesize that burning the BNT will do over what is currently being done, which is just holding it in the wallet?

The BNT is already out of the trading liquidity, out of circulation, unpurchaseable, unsellable.

What will burning BNT accomplish?

If you really want to try this experiment, don’t waste all of the BNT, burn half of it. See that there is no effect. And then go back to burning vBNT, which does have additional benefits.

100%. Burn vBNT going forward for the obvious leverage, and have fun with the BNT burn of the current reserves

Really the vBNT burn only makes sense if vBNT was cheaper.

Ironically the best scenario now for the vortex is to vortex itself.

Deposit the BNT, get vBNT 1:1 and dump vBNT to BNT - repeat. (you can transfer these positions to the DAO or the burn address).

And before anyone says - no, the vBNT minted does NOT matter since dumping vBNT yields no arbitrage opportunities.

For reference, there are currently 451,603 BNT network fees pending in v3 -

We really need to start advertising a burn. In 2 months there is a real chance that hits 1 million. That would be a great way to build hype.

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