# Proposal to extend LM rewards in MKR/BNT Pool **URL:** \ **Category:** Deprecated Proposals (NOT SUBMITTED)\ **Created:** [June 17, 2021, 12:42am UTC](https://gov.bancor.network/t/proposal-to-extend-lm-rewards-in-mkr-bnt-pool/2430 "2021-06-17T00:42:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Conw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Conw](https://gov.bancor.network/u/Conw)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 12:42am UTC](https://gov.bancor.network/t/proposal-to-extend-lm-rewards-in-mkr-bnt-pool/2430/1 "2021-06-17T00:42:00Z")
# Proposal to Extend LM Rewards on MKR /BNT pool # TL;DR - As of now Pool has $23M, and is in our top 10 in terms of total value. - Fees generated from swaps are still low as of now so likely will lose most of the MKR participants when LM ceases - Current APR is the highest pool for BNT holders at the moment as a %, so it’s a good pool for us BNT supporters - propose extending LM rewards in current state for another 12 weeks # Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![tenzent](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/gov.bancor.network/tenzent/32/1821_2.png) [@tenzent](https://gov.bancor.network/u/tenzent)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 6:01am UTC](https://gov.bancor.network/t/proposal-to-extend-lm-rewards-in-mkr-bnt-pool/2430/2 "2021-06-17T06:01:01Z")
> [@Conw](#): > > Current APR is the highest pool for BNT holders at the moment as a %, so it’s a good pool for us BNT supporters > [@Conw](#): > > Fees generated from swaps are still low as of now so likely will lose most of the MKR participants when LM ceases I think these are more reasons not to extend it than to extend it. Shows that there is a lack of interest by both people trading MKR and BNT stakers. ---
**Author:** ![eldude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c6cbf5/32.png) [@eldude](https://gov.bancor.network/u/eldude)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 7:30am UTC](https://gov.bancor.network/t/proposal-to-extend-lm-rewards-in-mkr-bnt-pool/2430/3 "2021-06-17T07:30:55Z")
I vote no. If the pool isn’t performing, not a great use of LM ---
**Author:** ![Sjwill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@Sjwill](https://gov.bancor.network/u/Sjwill)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 10:55am UTC](https://gov.bancor.network/t/proposal-to-extend-lm-rewards-in-mkr-bnt-pool/2430/4 "2021-06-17T10:55:50Z")
The MKR pool has a 0.5% swap fee. How about dropping it to 0.2% so it is more competitive with other DEXs. ---
**Author:** ![eldude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c6cbf5/32.png) [@eldude](https://gov.bancor.network/u/eldude)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 4:20pm UTC](https://gov.bancor.network/t/proposal-to-extend-lm-rewards-in-mkr-bnt-pool/2430/5 "2021-06-17T16:20:38Z")
happy to try anything that doesnt cost BNT ---
**Author:** ![mbr](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/gov.bancor.network/mbr/32/3021_2.png) [@mbr](https://gov.bancor.network/u/mbr)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 8:34pm UTC](https://gov.bancor.network/t/proposal-to-extend-lm-rewards-in-mkr-bnt-pool/2430/6 "2021-06-17T20:34:02Z")
Probably not a great candidate for LM extension; however, could be an excellent candidate for some pool fee tinkering. I see @Sjwill is looking at a drop to 0.2%. Might be worth a try. I will pull some data from the pool later today, and see if we can get a clear picture of our ‘before’ shot. ---
**Author:** ![Conw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Conw](https://gov.bancor.network/u/Conw)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 12:59am UTC](https://gov.bancor.network/t/proposal-to-extend-lm-rewards-in-mkr-bnt-pool/2430/7 "2021-06-18T00:59:41Z")
In the end of the day, nothing sustainable survives without good competitive swap fees. Should reduce them, but maybe half the LM rewards or extend for a short time to incentivize people to stay after swaps are reduced ---
**Author:** ![Conw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Conw](https://gov.bancor.network/u/Conw)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 1:00am UTC](https://gov.bancor.network/t/proposal-to-extend-lm-rewards-in-mkr-bnt-pool/2430/8 "2021-06-18T01:00:23Z")
If it doesn’t get traction kill them after a little longer. Perhaps a 4 week extension with reduced swap fees ---
**Author:** ![glenn](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/gov.bancor.network/glenn/32/1720_2.png) [@glenn](https://gov.bancor.network/u/glenn)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 4:44am UTC](https://gov.bancor.network/t/proposal-to-extend-lm-rewards-in-mkr-bnt-pool/2430/9 "2021-06-18T04:44:53Z")
Making the fees competitive is a good idea as we are essentially pricing our selves out at the moment. We are not the pool with the highest liquidity and hence don’t have much market power. ![image](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/uploads/bancordao/original/2X/3/3914f0faac57c7e21273c2e2ef9eefd2db4a31e4.png) The above doesn’t count Uniswap V3 which has 15M in liquidity on the MKR-ETH pair: ![image](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/uploads/bancordao/original/2X/d/d2d82a2d968330dec1d224ad87ab011e21a6e0be.png) Compare to us at ~23M: ![image](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/uploads/bancordao/original/2X/a/a40156d180906ddbf88cb726bd6087ffe2c27392.png) The fees for these pools are set between .16%-.3% at the moment. I think that even at .2% that we will be pricing ourselves out as the hop from ETH-BNT trading pair would put us at .35%. If the ETH-BNT pool fees go down to their original value (.10%) then we would be at Uni/Sushi levels (Balancer v1/v2 are at .2% and .16% respectively) if we set the fees to .2% on this pool. I think that going down to .1% is better for this pair as right now anything that’s above ~$800 doesn’t go to us **even if you are swapping BNT-MKR** through 1inch: ![chrome_YsLyftThJf](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/uploads/bancordao/original/2X/4/49d5e7f9d561e276d692f1d333bf8209c6229cc4.png) that’s wild. It would much rather swap the BNT to ETH and go somewhere else. We don’t come into the picture again until the swap is ~550K: ![chrome_ZqZQIginsd](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/uploads/bancordao/original/2X/5/56e79f57e4b1e0179fb201bb21c373c07e0c37a2.png) and even then we are only getting 10% of the trade. I will emphasize again that this is BNT → MKR swap and intuitively one would expect trades between $800-$500K to come in our direction when swapping directly (that’s not happening). ---
**Author:** ![Sjwill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@Sjwill](https://gov.bancor.network/u/Sjwill)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 9:15am UTC](https://gov.bancor.network/t/proposal-to-extend-lm-rewards-in-mkr-bnt-pool/2430/10 "2021-06-18T09:15:59Z")
That is crazy! Definitely an argument for doing something dramatic. We should do a systematic analysis of all our medium to large pools like this. If we aren’t competitive on a one leg swap, we deserve to fail. ---
**Author:** ![glenn](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/gov.bancor.network/glenn/32/1720_2.png) [@glenn](https://gov.bancor.network/u/glenn)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 2:12pm UTC](https://gov.bancor.network/t/proposal-to-extend-lm-rewards-in-mkr-bnt-pool/2430/11 "2021-06-18T14:12:56Z")
In order to not pollute this proposal with fees discussion, I started [Proposal: Lower MKR-BNT Fees to 0.1%](https://gov.bancor.network/t/proposal-lower-mkr-bnt-fees-to-0-1/2438). This will allow the community to consider the merits of extending LM on MKR separately from changing the fees on this pool. I will add some data about fees/volume stats on this pair later on today and how that compares to some of the other pools that have had LM rewards. ---
**Author:** ![glenn](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/gov.bancor.network/glenn/32/1720_2.png) [@glenn](https://gov.bancor.network/u/glenn)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 5:18am UTC](https://gov.bancor.network/t/proposal-to-extend-lm-rewards-in-mkr-bnt-pool/2430/12 "2021-06-21T05:18:51Z")
Since the week of 5/17 to now (roughly 35 days) this is the amount of fees collected for this pool and others that have had or have an ongoing LM campaign: | symbol | total\_fees | | --- | --- | | REN | $44,138.60 | | OCEAN | $44,944.94 | | GRT | $52,754.60 | | UNI | $55,202.14 | | BAT | $66,479.79 | | ROOK | $87,298.11 | | ALPHA | $117,590.87 | | WOO | $133,954.12 | | AAVE | $142,191.17 | | SNX | $148,400.33 | | MKR | $156,616.77 | | YFI | $160,653.50 | | wNXM | $199,299.34 | | ENJ | $341,082.63 | | MATIC | $887,341.10 | The weekly fees for this token has been on the declined since 5/17: ![image](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/uploads/bancordao/original/2X/3/335ff0f6345ff7324c88d91f47741ba26be54577.png) which amounts to the following volume: ![image](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/uploads/bancordao/original/2X/9/914086e987f0c6e42e85749a82b39645094cc4fe.png) I don’t think we need to vote on this proposal yet and we can punt this vote to next week since there is still 12 days left. I wonder if we might see an increase in volume should the following proposal pass: > [@Proposal: Lower MKR-BNT Fees to 0.1%](https://gov.bancor.network/t/proposal-lower-mkr-bnt-fees-to-0-1/2438): > > This proposal is expected to appear on Snapshot for voting on 2021-06-21T12:00:00Z (UTC) Coming from this thread. Making the fees competitive is a good idea as we are essentially pricing our selves out at the moment. We are not the pool with the highest liquidity and hence don’t have much market power. [image] The above doesn’t count Uniswap V3 which has 15M in liquidity on the MKR-ETH pair: Compare to us at ~23M: [image] The fees for these pools are set between .16%-.3% at the… This should also give @mbr time to pull any data from his end. ---
**Author:** ![mbr](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/gov.bancor.network/mbr/32/3021_2.png) [@mbr](https://gov.bancor.network/u/mbr)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2021, 2:47pm UTC](https://gov.bancor.network/t/proposal-to-extend-lm-rewards-in-mkr-bnt-pool/2430/13 "2021-06-21T14:47:19Z")
I moved this back down from level 2, as it is not yet in a suitable format. - Add a date for snapshot. - Delete the “ **Thoughts?** ”, as the inference is the subject is still being discussed. - The proposal is probably acceptable for Snapshot after these two changes alone; however, it may be beneficial to strengthen the document a little. ---
**Author:** ![satoshi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@satoshi](https://gov.bancor.network/u/satoshi)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 4:31pm UTC](https://gov.bancor.network/t/proposal-to-extend-lm-rewards-in-mkr-bnt-pool/2430/14 "2021-07-27T16:31:12Z")
Hello, I wanted to bump this up to see if it is worth discussing again to extend LM rewards for the MKR pool. What are thoughts and why?